• Re: Democrat Protesters

    From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Aaron Thomas on Tuesday, June 02, 2020 14:02:48
    On 01 Jun 2020 at 10:32a, Aaron Thomas pondered and said...

    These insane Democrat protesters are making people feel uncomfortable.

    In my town, they didn't burn down Target yet, but they burned down a beautiful, deluxe children's playground.

    Did the toddlers in my rural upstate NY town have ties to Chauvin?

    https://www.kare11.com/video/news/local/george-floyd/raw-semi-truck-drives-into -george-floyd-protesters-on-i-35-w-in-minneapolis/89-df0d4a06-1b5e-468f-a887-b4 96491477cf

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  • From Daniel@1:340/7 to Aaron Thomas on Tuesday, June 02, 2020 07:42:00
    Aaron Thomas wrote to All <=-

    These insane Democrat protesters are making people feel uncomfortable.

    In my town, they didn't burn down Target yet, but they burned down a beautiful, deluxe children's playground.

    Did the toddlers in my rural upstate NY town have ties to Chauvin?

    The rationale behind the riots no longer relate to the senseless murder of George Floyd. It is no longer about the poor victim, police brutality, police corruption, or worse. It's about demolishing our government in an effort to reform the US into a communist or socialist cesspool.

    I've seen plenty interviews of people on the street saying this very thing.

    This antifa group is fascist by definition. And to make matters worse, right wing white supremacy groups are coming out of their hiding places and infiltrating the antifa riots. It's beyond ugly. And when you look at the crowd, it's mostly very young twenty somethings. It's a sad time right now.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:267/150 to Daniel on Tuesday, June 02, 2020 08:40:28
    brutality, police corruption, or worse. It's about demolishing our government in an effort to reform the US into a communist or socialist cesspool.

    Let's see what they get out of all this.

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Aaron Thomas on Wednesday, June 03, 2020 03:14:34
    Hello Aaron,

    These insane Democrat protesters are making people feel uncomfortable.

    I have no idea how many protesters are "Democrats" or "Republicans".
    Or even how many are actually Americans. But none of them appear to be
    insane, as every single one of them are in favor of justice for all.

    What we have today is a president who is clearly out of control.
    The military exists to protect Americans, not harm them. And yet
    the stain on our country decided to put a violent end to peaceful
    protests (a Constitutional right) by illegally ordering Americans
    (active military) to kill other Americans.

    The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for
    commissioned officers are as follows:

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend
    the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and
    that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and
    the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations
    and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

    I have one question for every commissioned officer in this land.
    Just one -

    "Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"

    Every officer who obeys an illegal order from his commanding
    officer is guilty of a crime, as duly noted in the Uniform Code
    of Military Justice. Some would even call it treason.

    So, what should be an officer's answer to the orange stain?
    A one-finger salute is an action that would speak far louder
    than words. Every officer should do so, in unison.

    In my town, they didn't burn down Target yet, but they burned down a >beautiful, deluxe children's playground.

    In my town, active military do not shoot Americans. Or even
    undocumented immigrants. After all, that is not their job.

    Did the toddlers in my rural upstate NY town have ties to Chauvin?

    I know quite a lot of Chauvins down the bayou here in Louisiana.
    In fact, there are so many of them that we named a town Chauvin.
    Almost of them speak Cajun French fluently, and can pick crabs
    quicker than you can spit. And when crawfish are in season, ooh
    la la ...

    --Lee

    --
    Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dan Cross on Thursday, June 04, 2020 03:34:06
    Hello Dan,

    The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for >LL>commissioned officers are as follows:

    Actually, the oath of office is slightly different:

    "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the >Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; >that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this >obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and >that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which
    I
    am about to enter: So help me God."

    (You can omit the "so help me god" part if you want.)

    In both, the Constitution is listed first in their oath.

    Commander-in-Chief is a military rank. The president is C-in-C.
    As such, he can be held accountable for his actions under the Code
    of Military Justice. At least in theory.

    Whenever I did someone's reenlistment, I would ask them
    ahead of time whether they wanted to swear or affirm and
    whether they wanted the god part.

    Did you allow them to hold a bible upside down? What Trump did
    many consider sacrilegious - ordered active military to open fire
    on peaceful, nonviolent protesters (including women and children)
    so he could create a photo-op for himself in front of a church,
    and later at a religious shrine, both places uninvited. While
    in front of the church, he held a bible upside down while making
    insane remarks about "law and order", despite all the chaos he
    himself had created.

    What he did was clearly unconstitutional, and possibly illegal.
    But he will never apologize for any of his actions, no matter how
    reprehensible or despicable they may be.

    --Lee

    --
    Nobody Beats Our Meat

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  • From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Lee Lofaso on Friday, June 05, 2020 06:10:40
    On 04 Jun 2020 at 03:34a, Lee Lofaso pondered and said...

    The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for >LL>commissioned officers are as follows:

    Actually, the oath of office is slightly different:

    "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the >Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domest >that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this >obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; >that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on whi
    I
    am about to enter: So help me God."

    (You can omit the "so help me god" part if you want.)

    In both, the Constitution is listed first in their oath.

    Yes. Because that is the most important thing. But if
    you're going to say the oath of office says something, you
    should be accurate.

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dan Cross on Friday, June 05, 2020 13:22:58
    Hello Dan,

    The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for >LL>commissioned officers are as follows:

    Actually, the oath of office is slightly different:

    "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the >Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and
    domest LL> >that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this LL> >obligation freely, without any mental reservation or
    purpose of evasion; LL> >that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on whi LL> > I
    am about to enter: So help me God."

    (You can omit the "so help me god" part if you want.)
    In both, the Constitution is listed first in their oath.

    Yes. Because that is the most important thing.

    Which is why I mentioned it.

    But if you're going to say the oath of office says something, you
    should be accurate.

    Here is the version I posted. As far as I know, it is accurate.
    Please feel free to post your own. If it is any different, I am
    sure we will all know soon enough.

    -=begin=-

    The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for
    commissioned officers are as follows:

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend
    the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and
    that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and
    the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations
    and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

    I have one question for every commissioned officer in this land.
    Just one -

    "Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"

    -=end=-

    The Constitution is noted first in my copy. I do pray it is the
    same with yours.

    Oath (or Affirmation) of Office for President -

    "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute
    the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best
    of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the
    United States." - Article II, Section 1

    Nothing else is stated.

    You have publicly stated that you are (or have been) a commissioned
    officer. The president is commander-in-chief, which is a military rank.
    IOW, the president is your superior. Your CO, or commanding officer.

    Your CO has given you an order to shoot, with live ammo, other
    Americans. Do you comply? Even if those other Americans are just
    young black kids stealing shoes from department stores.

    This very situation happened in New Orleans after Katrina.
    Fortunately for those young black kids, General Honor‚ refused
    to comply with his CO's request.

    Today's officers have no balls, as shown by their recent actions.

    --Lee

    --
    If we don't get it / Shut it down!

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dan Cross on Saturday, June 06, 2020 15:47:39
    Hello Dan,

    But if you're going to say the oath of office says something, you >LL>>should be accurate.
    Here is the version I posted. As far as I know, it is accurate. >LL>Please feel free to post your own. If it is any different, I am
    sure we will all know soon enough.

    What you posted is the oath of _enlistment_.

    That's what I said.

    The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for >LL>commissioned officers are as follows:

    No. I already corrected you and posted the full text of
    the oath of office, which is different from the oath of
    enlistment.

    THE WORDINGS OF THE CURRENT OATH OF ENLISTMENT AND OATH FOR
    COMMISSIONED OFFICERS ARE AS FOLLOWS:

    Notice I did not mention anything about "oath of office" in my
    original post. In my next post, to you, I quoted the oath of office
    for the president, who never served in the military or swore any
    oath of enlistment/oath for commissioned officers.

    This really isn't hard to verify, but from >https://www.army.mil/values/officers.html:

    Oath of Commissioned Officers
    -----------------------------
    I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the >Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; >that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this >obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and >that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which
    I
    am about to enter. So help me God. (Title 5 U.S. Code 3331, an individual, >except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit
    in
    the civil service or uniformed services)
    ---end---

    You will notice that the text of the two oaths is different.
    You correctly quoted the oath of office later, but not in
    your earlier message.

    I used cut-and-paste to ensure both were the same.

    As I said before, if you're going to make a statement
    about this, you have an obligation to at least be accurate.

    And this is so trivially easy to verify.

    Just so we are both on the same page, here it is with url -

    https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html


    The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for
    commissioned officers are as follows:

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend
    the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and
    that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and
    the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations
    and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

    (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first
    adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


    "I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the
    United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly
    swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of
    the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I
    will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this
    obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of
    evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties
    of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

    (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

    I have one question for every commissioned officer in this land.
    Just one -
    "Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"

    The UCMJ is quite clear on this: not only do all members
    of the military have a right to ignore illegal orders, but
    they have an obligation to actively resist those orders.

    And yet, the joint chiefs of staff went along with their
    president as he ordered active military to open fire on peaceful
    protesters (mostly women and children) on church grounds. The
    soldiers did as they were told, using rubber bullets, pepper
    spray, and tear gas to mow everybody down.

    You have publicly stated that you are (or have been) a commissioned >LL>officer. The president is commander-in-chief, which is a military rank. >LL>IOW, the president is your superior. Your CO, or commanding officer.

    I am a Marine, and yes, I was a commissioned officer (I was
    also enlisted before being commissioned). However, I have
    been honorably discharged for some time now; so no, he's not
    my CIC (which is not the same as one's CO, which usually
    refers to one's immediate commander).

    When the president (as C-in-C) gives a soldier a direct order,
    that soldier is expected to comply. The president is not going
    to ask a soldier to go find his/her CO, as the president is at
    that very moment his/her CO.

    Your CO has given you an order to shoot, with live ammo, other >LL>Americans. Do you comply? Even if those other Americans are just
    young black kids stealing shoes from department stores.

    See above. No, you do not. The UCMJ is very clear on this.

    Disobeying a direct order, especially during a time of war, can get
    a soldier shot. Or stripped of rank and privilege. How many would be
    willing to take that chance?

    This very situation happened in New Orleans after Katrina.
    Fortunately for those young black kids, General Honor‚ refused
    to comply with his CO's request.
    Today's officers have no balls, as shown by their recent actions.

    I know a number of officers who'd take exception to
    that and who have demonstrated, through their actions
    both in peacetime and under fire, that you're full of
    shit if you think that.

    I am sure you do know a number of officers you *think* would take
    exception to what has recently taken place with Trump ordering active
    military to open fire on peaceful protesters, with the full blessing
    of his joint chiefs of staff. But how many of those you know actually
    would, when put to the test?

    Indeed, even in the last 48 hours, a number of retired
    and some active duty military officers have put their
    money where their mouths are and reaffirmed their
    dedication to their oath and the Constitution.

    Talk is cheap. Especially when your own head is not on the line.
    Active duty military, when ordered by their president to do his
    bidding, will do as they are told. General Honor‚ was and is an
    honorable man, who did stand up to power when his time of testing
    came. Told the governor to take a flying hike, rather than have
    his soldiers fire using live ammunation on kids stealing shoes
    in department stores.

    And now, respectfully, you should stay in your lane
    and shut the fuck up about the military.

    Silence is complicity. Which is what made Hitler great.
    I will not be silent, and neither should anybody else.
    We do not need another Hitler. Especially one with orange
    hair. Even if he doesn't have a funny moustache. Hell,
    his shade of orange skin is bad enough ...

    --Lee

    --
    Melts in your mouth, not in your hands

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  • From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Lee Lofaso on Sunday, June 07, 2020 13:19:55
    On 06 Jun 2020 at 03:47p, Lee Lofaso pondered and said...

    Notice I did not mention anything about "oath of office" in my
    original post. In my next post, to you, I quoted the oath of office
    for the president, who never served in the military or swore any
    oath of enlistment/oath for commissioned officers.

    Stop doubling down when you're wrong: it's not a good look.

    Just so we are both on the same page, here it is with url -

    https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html

    I already posted a URL. Do you just insist on being right?
    Okay. You're right.

    The UCMJ is quite clear on this: not only do all members
    of the military have a right to ignore illegal orders, but
    they have an obligation to actively resist those orders.

    And yet, the joint chiefs of staff went along with their
    president as he ordered active military to open fire on peaceful protesters (mostly women and children) on church grounds. The
    soldiers did as they were told, using rubber bullets, pepper
    spray, and tear gas to mow everybody down.

    No, that was the National Guard and park police, plus
    some kind of secret police formed from the Bureau of
    Prisons. Those were not active duty troops.

    When the president (as C-in-C) gives a soldier a direct order,
    that soldier is expected to comply. The president is not going
    to ask a soldier to go find his/her CO, as the president is at
    that very moment his/her CO.

    No. The "soldier" (note, I'm a Marine, not a soldier) is
    only expected to comply if, and only if, the order is legal.
    Yes, all members of the US military are given training on
    legal and illegal orders. Yes, it is explained from entry
    training onwards that illegal orders are to be actively
    resisted.

    Disobeying a direct order, especially during a time of war, can get
    a soldier shot. Or stripped of rank and privilege. How many would be willing to take that chance?

    Pretty much all. As I've said now, repeatedly, but for
    some unfathomable reason you seem incapable of absorbing,
    servicemembers are under no obligation to follow illegal
    orders, and ignoring such an order is not considered
    "disobeying a direct order."

    I am sure you do know a number of officers you *think* would take exception to what has recently taken place with Trump ordering active military to open fire on peaceful protesters, with the full blessing
    of his joint chiefs of staff. But how many of those you know actually would, when put to the test?

    Given that I've seen them do it in combat, I'm willing to
    bet pretty much all of them wouldn't have a problem telling
    a 5x draft dodger who considered avoiding STDs in Studio 54
    his "personal Vietnam" where to shove it.

    Gen Milley shouted the president down in the Oval Office
    the other day.

    Talk is cheap. Especially when your own head is not on the line.
    Active duty military, when ordered by their president to do his
    bidding, will do as they are told. General Honor‚ was and is an
    honorable man, who did stand up to power when his time of testing
    came. Told the governor to take a flying hike, rather than have
    his soldiers fire using live ammunation on kids stealing shoes
    in department stores.

    You speak with a confidence that is unwarranted given your
    ignorance of the matter and overall lack of experience with
    the subject.

    You should stop.

    And now, respectfully, you should stay in your lane
    and shut the fuck up about the military.

    Silence is complicity. Which is what made Hitler great.

    I'm pretty sure I've been pretty vocal about what I think
    about Trump. How dare you evoke Hitler when discussing the
    US military.

    You're the douche who posted that you had COVID-19 and then
    tried to scurry behind a lame excuse of quoting someone.

    I will not be silent, and neither should anybody else.

    You have every right to say whatever you want. I have the
    right to judge you as a sanctimonious ass who's ignorance and
    arrogance and propensity for writing walls of unintelligible
    text do more harm to the causes you claim to care about than
    they do good.

    We do not need another Hitler. Especially one with orange
    hair. Even if he doesn't have a funny moustache. Hell,
    his shade of orange skin is bad enough ...

    Indeed. Perhaps you can get with the program and actually try
    and help get rid of the scourge currently occupying the White
    House? Posting uninformed claptrap about the military isn't
    helping.

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dan Cross on Sunday, June 07, 2020 18:20:15
    Hello Dan,

    Notice I did not mention anything about "oath of office" in my
    original post. In my next post, to you, I quoted the oath of office
    for the president, who never served in the military or swore any
    oath of enlistment/oath for commissioned officers.

    Stop doubling down when you're wrong: it's not a good look.

    "Oath of Office" is not the same thing as "Oath of Enlistment".
    One is to be sworn to execute the duties of an office, the other
    is to be sworn to perform the duties of an employee.

    Just so we are both on the same page, here it is with url -
    https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html

    I already posted a URL. Do you just insist on being right?
    Okay. You're right.

    Of course I'm right. The Congress codified the oath.

    The UCMJ is quite clear on this: not only do all members
    of the military have a right to ignore illegal orders, but
    they have an obligation to actively resist those orders.
    And yet, the joint chiefs of staff went along with their
    president as he ordered active military to open fire on peaceful
    protesters (mostly women and children) on church grounds. The
    soldiers did as they were told, using rubber bullets, pepper
    spray, and tear gas to mow everybody down.

    No, that was the National Guard and park police, plus
    some kind of secret police formed from the Bureau of
    Prisons. Those were not active duty troops.

    General Mark Milley (you do know who he is?) was wearing his
    battle fatigues, ready for action, as he walked with Trump to
    the church grounds.

    When the president (as C-in-C) gives a soldier a direct order,
    that soldier is expected to comply. The president is not going
    to ask a soldier to go find his/her CO, as the president is at
    that very moment his/her CO.

    No. The "soldier" (note, I'm a Marine, not a soldier) is
    only expected to comply if, and only if, the order is legal.
    Yes, all members of the US military are given training on
    legal and illegal orders. Yes, it is explained from entry
    training onwards that illegal orders are to be actively
    resisted.

    You're right. General Milley is an Army guy. A true soldier.
    As well as a hypocrite, given his own actions. Wrote a memo to
    his troops and then ignored everything he wrote by joining his
    pal Donald Trump in his mad venture to destroy the USA from
    within.

    Disobeying a direct order, especially during a time of war, can get
    a soldier shot. Or stripped of rank and privilege. How many would be >LL>willing to take that chance?

    Pretty much all. As I've said now, repeatedly, but for
    some unfathomable reason you seem incapable of absorbing,
    servicemembers are under no obligation to follow illegal
    orders, and ignoring such an order is not considered
    "disobeying a direct order."

    Yeah. General Milley listens to his Commander-in-Chief and makes
    sure to do everything he is told.

    I am sure you do know a number of officers you *think* would take >LL>exception to what has recently taken place with Trump ordering active >LL>military to open fire on peaceful protesters, with the full blessing
    of his joint chiefs of staff. But how many of those you know actually >LL>would, when put to the test?

    Given that I've seen them do it in combat, I'm willing to
    bet pretty much all of them wouldn't have a problem telling
    a 5x draft dodger who considered avoiding STDs in Studio 54
    his "personal Vietnam" where to shove it.

    Didn't bother General Milley or the other Joint Chiefs.

    Gen Milley shouted the president down in the Oval Office
    the other day.

    And also approved his message by walking down the street, in
    battle fatigues, with President Trump to make war on peaceful
    protesters (mostly women and children) on church grounds.

    Talk is cheap. Especially when your own head is not on the line.
    Active duty military, when ordered by their president to do his >LL>bidding, will do as they are told. General Honor‚ was and is an >LL>honorable man, who did stand up to power when his time of testing
    came. Told the governor to take a flying hike, rather than have
    his soldiers fire using live ammunation on kids stealing shoes
    in department stores.

    You speak with a confidence that is unwarranted given your
    ignorance of the matter and overall lack of experience with
    the subject.

    The president says he has the right to do what he does due to
    the Insurrection Act of 1807. General Milley has never called him
    on that, even though he knows the president is full of sh*t.

    You should stop.

    Silence is murder. Unlike Trump and his minions, I am not a
    murderer. The alternative is to raise holy hell. And be condemned
    for being a saint.

    Which would you rather be? A saint or a sinner? Most of us are
    sinners, begging for forgiveness. But some don't care and like to
    continue sinning, and sinning, and sinning ...

    And now, respectfully, you should stay in your lane
    and shut the fuck up about the military.
    Silence is complicity. Which is what made Hitler great.

    I'm pretty sure I've been pretty vocal about what I think
    about Trump. How dare you evoke Hitler when discussing the
    US military.

    Silence is murder, not just complicity. We have a president who
    gladly accepts the help of white supremacists, such as neo-Nazis
    and other racist groups. Nobody should keep silent about this.
    Those who praise Adolf Hitler should be condemned for what they
    say and promote. And yet, look at how many continue to praise
    and support what we have occupying the White House today.

    It is not just Trump, but Trumpism, that is on display. How to
    rid this sickness from our land is a question that has befuddled
    many for years. Maybe it cannot be cured. But perhaps it can be
    controlled, if only an antidote can be found in time.

    You're the douche who posted that you had COVID-19 and then
    tried to scurry behind a lame excuse of quoting someone.

    What I posted was a joke. Too bad you didn't get it.

    I will not be silent, and neither should anybody else.

    You have every right to say whatever you want.

    And you have every right to keep silent, giving tacit approval
    to everything Trump says and does. However, giving tacit approval
    to a madman does not make it right.

    I have the right to judge you as a sanctimonious ass who's ignorance and
    arrogance and propensity for writing walls of unintelligible text do more harm to the causes you claim to care about than they do good.

    You might even be right on that. I wouldn't know. I just do
    what I do and hope I live to see another day. Same as most folks.
    Of course, others don't care and choose to step in front of trains
    or jump off of bridges or tall buildings ...

    We do not need another Hitler. Especially one with orange
    hair. Even if he doesn't have a funny moustache. Hell,
    his shade of orange skin is bad enough ...

    Indeed. Perhaps you can get with the program and actually try
    and help get rid of the scourge currently occupying the White
    House? Posting uninformed claptrap about the military isn't
    helping.

    There are pictures on social media of General Milley wearing
    battle fatigues standing side by side with his beloved President
    in front of St. John's church as the crowd of women and children
    was being hit by rubber bullets, pepper spray and tear gas ...

    --Lee

    --
    Hey hey! Ho ho! Donald Trump has got to go!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Lee Lofaso on Monday, June 08, 2020 07:48:22
    On 07 Jun 2020 at 06:20p, Lee Lofaso pondered and said...

    Which would you rather be? A saint or a sinner?

    You're just a sanctimonious douche. Trump
    asked for 10,000 active duty troops and got
    shouted down by Milley. Esper got slapped
    down by the chiefs, which is why you don't
    see troops confronted with the awful choice
    of potentially starting a coup by disobeying
    illegal orders.

    The interplay between civilian and military
    leadership is subtle and requires great care
    to avoid setting a precedent that you clearly
    cannot fathom the consequences of.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dan Cross on Monday, June 08, 2020 15:16:09
    Hello Dan,

    Which would you rather be? A saint or a sinner?

    You're just a sanctimonious douche. Trump
    asked for 10,000 active duty troops and got
    shouted down by Milley.

    General Milley took an oath to defend the Constitution
    of the United States, yet refused to do so, as shown by
    his actions.

    General Mark Milley, decked out in combat fatigues, marched
    lock-step with Donald Trump to the church as orders were given
    for National Guard to open fire on peaceful protesters (mostly
    women and children, along with clergy). Did Donald Trump fire
    General Milley after he wrote a memo and said a few words?
    Nope. General Milley is still Trump's guy. As if nothing has
    happened to spoil their fine relationship. What a guy!

    Rather than defending the Constitution of the United States,
    the thing to do is to support and defend the president!
    After all, the president doesn't care about the Constitution
    of the United States, as shown by his hatred of "we the people."

    Esper got slapped down by the chiefs, which is why you don't
    see troops confronted with the awful choice of potentially starting a coup
    by disobeying illegal orders.

    Like your dear friend Milley, Esper also took an oath to defend
    the Constitution of the United States rather than the president.
    But like Milley, he chose to do nothing to stop the president
    from having his way in going to war against the American people.

    So, by your lights it is perfectly okay for Americans to kill
    other Americans, as they would only be "following orders" of a
    president gone mad. That line of defense did not work out so
    well for Germans who were prosecuted at Nuremburg. I wonder how
    well that defense will work out for those who followed the illegal
    orders of their commander-in-chief?

    General Honor‚ (who also took the same oath as you) had the good
    sense not to obey the illegal orders given to him by Governor "Bobby"
    Jindal, who wanted National Guardsmen to use live ammo to kill young
    black boys who were looting department stores in New Orleans. Talk
    about a helluva price to pay for stealing shoes, wouldn't you say?

    Back to the crowd at St. John's church -

    You know as well as I do that nobody in that crowd deserved to be
    shot by rubber bullets, pepper spray, or tear gas. It was a peaceful
    protest, allowed under our US Constitution, and your fine president
    and fellow officers could have cared less. They did what they did
    because the US Constitution means nothing to them. And peoples lives
    mean even less.

    Black Lives Matter. To all of us. Not just to blacks.

    We the people have a Constitutional right to exercise *all* freedoms
    noted. You might want to take some time and actually read what the US Constitution says, including all the amendments.

    You can start with the Preamble and go from there. It should not
    take you long to finish, as the US Constitution is less than 5,000
    words total (including amendments).

    The interplay between civilian and military leadership is subtle and
    requires great care to avoid setting a precedent that you clearly
    cannot fathom the consequences of.

    It doesn't take much to understand that murder is murder.
    I condemn *all* acts of violence. So should you, and everyone
    else.

    Hitler needed an excuse to give him what he wanted. He blamed
    the Jews, and the Communists, for all Germany's problems. So what
    did he do? He gave Germans `The Night of the Long Knives'.

    Don't think it can't happen here? There were protests in over
    650 cities throughout this country last night. Even more are expected
    tonight. The mayor of Minneapolis has given up on it, deciding to
    disband the entire police force. The mayor of NYC is thinking about
    defunding his city's police force, although he did not say by how
    much. What is going to happen when nobody is left to protect the
    general public from itself?

    America will have its own version of fascism.
    Fascism with a smile.
    A huge orange grin smiling at ya.

    A Sacrimonious Douche,
    --Lee

    --
    If we don't get it / Shut it down!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Lee Lofaso on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 09:32:29
    On 08 Jun 2020 at 03:16p, Lee Lofaso pondered and said...

    You're just a sanctimonious douche. Trump
    asked for 10,000 active duty troops and got
    shouted down by Milley.

    General Milley took an oath to defend the Constitution
    of the United States, yet refused to do so, as shown by
    his actions.

    Trump might have told Milley, "Take a walk with me."
    That, in itself, was not an illegal order. What should
    be have done differently?

    That doesn't mean that Milley sanctioned using police
    to clear out that park. That doesn't mean Milley supported
    sending in active duty troops, as we know he didn't. Milley
    has to walk a fine line of reigning in Trump and keeping
    politics out of the military.

    Get off your high horse. You make assumptions
    about things you don't know and act like others
    who don't make those same assumptions are complicit
    with your imagined wrong-doings.

    General Mark Milley, decked out in combat fatigues, marched
    lock-step with Donald Trump to the church as orders were given
    for National Guard to open fire on peaceful protesters (mostly
    women and children, along with clergy). Did Donald Trump fire
    General Milley after he wrote a memo and said a few words?
    Nope. General Milley is still Trump's guy. As if nothing has
    happened to spoil their fine relationship. What a guy!

    Milley has no real authority over the guard in this
    case. That's on the governors. He's wearing fatigues
    because that's the uniform of the day.

    You DO realize I find Trump's use of force to clear
    Lafayette Park repugnant, right? You DO realize I
    abhor his perversion of the guard for a cheap photo
    op, right? You're not only preaching to the choir,
    the spittle flying from your frothing mouth is hitting
    me in the face.

    Rather than defending the Constitution of the United States,
    the thing to do is to support and defend the president!
    After all, the president doesn't care about the Constitution
    of the United States, as shown by his hatred of "we the people."

    You're so convinced of your interpretation that you
    can't see how you could even possibly be misreading
    the situation.

    Esper got slapped down by the chiefs, which is why you don't
    see troops confronted with the awful choice of potentially starting a cou
    by disobeying illegal orders.

    Like your dear friend Milley, Esper also took an oath to defend
    the Constitution of the United States rather than the president.

    Indeed. And Esper came out against this. Milley shouted
    down Trump in a meeting. Now the guard is being pulled from
    DC. The generals won this one. What would you have rather
    been done? They through a hissy fit like you and get sacked
    until Trump finds some asshole willing to do what he wants?
    Or they exert pressure behinds the scenes and stave off a
    coup until the election?

    You can't see the bigger picture.

    But like Milley, he chose to do nothing to stop the president
    from having his way in going to war against the American people.

    He literally shouted him down in a meeting. Trump wanted
    10,000 active duty troops to flood DC and Milley told him
    to fuck off.

    So, by your lights it is perfectly okay for Americans to kill
    other Americans, as they would only be "following orders" of a
    president gone mad. That line of defense did not work out so
    well for Germans who were prosecuted at Nuremburg. I wonder how
    well that defense will work out for those who followed the illegal
    orders of their commander-in-chief?

    Fuck off you sanctimonious douche.

    How dare you accuse me of supporting this asshole or his
    idiotic abuse of the military. Pull the tree out of your
    ass and act like an adult for a minute: what Trump is doing
    is far from ok. But blinding falling on our swords isn't
    going to do anyone any favors and will only make the
    situation orders of magnitude worse.

    General Honor‚ (who also took the same oath as you) had the good
    sense not to obey the illegal orders given to him by Governor "Bobby" Jindal, who wanted National Guardsmen to use live ammo to kill young
    black boys who were looting department stores in New Orleans. Talk
    about a helluva price to pay for stealing shoes, wouldn't you say?

    Apples and oranges.

    Back to the crowd at St. John's church -
    You know as well as I do that nobody in that crowd deserved to be
    shot by rubber bullets, pepper spray, or tear gas. It was a peaceful protest, allowed under our US Constitution, and your fine president
    and fellow officers could have cared less. They did what they did
    because the US Constitution means nothing to them. And peoples lives
    mean even less.

    Hey asshole, point out where I ever said that anyone
    in that crowd deserved what happened to them? Go ahead,
    I'll wait. That's your misinterpretation because you're
    so goddamn drunk on your own faux moral superiority and
    love to hear yourself talk that you never stop to see if
    people are agreeing with you. I bet you're just the life
    of the parties you go to.

    On the other hand, you seem to think it's funny to joke
    about having COVID-19. Is that because you don't care
    about the 100,000 Americans who have died because your
    fine president couldn't be bothered to get off the golf
    course and deal with the pandemic like a real leader?

    Black Lives Matter. To all of us. Not just to blacks.

    You say that, but your jokes about COVID-19 betray a
    different viewpoint. You obviously don't care, because
    COVID-19 has disproportionately affected black and minority
    communities and you seem to think it's fine material for
    a joke. You and your president should go golfing together,
    you obviously have a lot in common. Members of the latinx
    community are also hard hit; do you still think your joke
    was appropriate? How about kids in cages in concentration
    camps? Do you approve of that, too? I mean, your president
    does. He also jokes about COVID-19, I'm sure.

    We the people have a Constitutional right to exercise *all* freedoms noted. You might want to take some time and actually read what the US Constitution says, including all the amendments.

    So are you going to show up at one of those reopening protests
    without a mask and with a gun like the other right-wing nutjobs?
    You clearly don't care about BLM and you clearly don't take
    COVID-19 very seriously, so you'd probably fit right in.

    You can start with the Preamble and go from there. It should not
    take you long to finish, as the US Constitution is less than 5,000
    words total (including amendments).

    Can I borrow your pocket constitution, or did you leave it
    at the bird refugee with the other right-wingers?

    It doesn't take much to understand that murder is murder.
    I condemn *all* acts of violence. So should you, and everyone
    else.

    Then why do you joke about COVID-19?

    A huge orange grin smiling at ya.

    Seems like you support him based on what you do.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dan Cross on Tuesday, June 09, 2020 08:03:33
    Hello Dan,

    You're just a sanctimonious douche. Trump
    asked for 10,000 active duty troops and got
    shouted down by Milley.
    General Milley took an oath to defend the Constitution
    of the United States, yet refused to do so, as shown by
    his actions.

    Trump might have told Milley, "Take a walk with me."
    That, in itself, was not an illegal order. What should
    be have done differently?

    General Milley should have done what General Honor‚ did -
    tell the president to "F*ck off".

    Trump wanted to use the National Guard to clear out peaceful
    protesters so he could have a photo-op in front of a church and
    at a religious shrine. Never mind the fact it was an illegal
    order. Never mind the fact that members of the National Guard
    from different states were present. Never mind the fact that
    both the church and the shrine were in DC, which is not a state.

    General Milley is not a stupid man. He knew what the president
    wanted, and his reasons why. And yet he showed up, in combat
    fatigues, walking with Trump, ready to do battle with peaceful
    and nonviolent Americans who had a Constitutional right to
    protest.

    General Milley took an oath to defend the Constitution of the
    United States, not the president. He seems to have forgotten, or
    perhaps he just didn't give a sh*t. Either way, he was wrong to
    have done what he did. Tacit approval is the same as giving the
    illegal orders himself.

    That doesn't mean that Milley sanctioned using police
    to clear out that park.

    Tacit approval is just that. Giving his own approval to what
    was planned, and done.

    That doesn't mean Milley supported sending in active duty troops, as we know
    he didn't.

    Milley was there, along with his dearly beloved president, supporting
    those National Guardsmen who followed the illegal orders given them.

    Milley has to walk a fine line of reigning in Trump and keeping
    politics out of the military.

    Milley is not an honorable man. If he had any honor, he would have
    resigned his commission, then walked away. Some would call what he
    did conduct unbecoming an officer, but since he is a flunky for his
    president will never have to face a courts martial.

    Get off your high horse.

    Why? Does the truth hurt your ears? I sure hope so.

    You make assumptions about things you don't know and act like others
    who don't make those same assumptions are complicit with your imagined
    wrong-doings.

    When have I ever said Milley was or is a stupid person?
    When have I ever said Trump was or is a stupid person?
    Fact of the matter is, I find both men to be very smart
    people. And also dangerous. Especially since both know
    right from wrong and choose to do wrong anyway.

    General Mark Milley, decked out in combat fatigues, marched
    lock-step with Donald Trump to the church as orders were given
    for National Guard to open fire on peaceful protesters (mostly
    women and children, along with clergy). Did Donald Trump fire
    General Milley after he wrote a memo and said a few words?
    Nope. General Milley is still Trump's guy. As if nothing has
    happened to spoil their fine relationship. What a guy!

    Milley has no real authority over the guard in this
    case. That's on the governors. He's wearing fatigues
    because that's the uniform of the day.

    General Milley is Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. All of the
    other Chiefs of Staff also violated their own oaths by defending their president rather than the Constitution of the United States. So please
    do not think what I am saying is all about Milley. Far from it.

    You DO realize I find Trump's use of force to clear
    Lafayette Park repugnant, right? You DO realize I
    abhor his perversion of the guard for a cheap photo
    op, right? You're not only preaching to the choir,
    the spittle flying from your frothing mouth is hitting
    me in the face.

    Good. It should. As it should hit every person in the military
    (active and retired). Perhaps if enough people take the same approach
    as me, positive things might begin to happen in this once-proud
    country of ours.

    Rather than defending the Constitution of the United States,
    the thing to do is to support and defend the president!
    After all, the president doesn't care about the Constitution
    of the United States, as shown by his hatred of "we the people."

    You're so convinced of your interpretation that you
    can't see how you could even possibly be misreading
    the situation.

    I quoted the text of the oath of office for the president.
    I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those
    who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the
    Constitution of the United States.

    Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there
    to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.

    Esper got slapped down by the chiefs, which is why you don't
    see troops confronted with the awful choice of potentially starting a
    cou by disobeying illegal orders.
    Like your dear friend Milley, Esper also took an oath to defend
    the Constitution of the United States rather than the president.

    Indeed. And Esper came out against this.

    And yet he chose to say nothing to prevent Trump or Milley
    from doing what they did.

    Milley shouted down Trump in a meeting.

    General Milley still has the same job he had before he went with
    Trump to gas the protesters. Esper also still has the same job he
    had. See how that works? They best buds! All of them!

    Now the guard is being pulled from DC.

    Now that Trump got his photo-op they are no longer needed.
    So why keep them there? Serves no useful purpose ...

    The generals won this one.

    Joe Biden 55%
    Donald Trump 41%
    US Military 10%
    Police 5%

    What would you have rather been done?

    Tell Trump to "f*ck off", grab a beer, and play frisbee with my dog.

    They through a hissy fit like you and get sacked until Trump finds some
    asshole willing to do what he wants?

    General Honor‚ was not sacked after he told the governor to "f*ck off".

    Or they exert pressure behinds the scenes and stave off a coup until the
    election?

    A coup? The military is so dysfunctional in this country it does
    not even know what a coup is, much less how to conduct one. How else
    do you think Trump is able to get away with doing what he does?

    Who gave the orders for the National Guard to open fire on
    peaceful protesters? Washington DC is not a state. No governors
    there to give the orders. Who gave the orders? You should know,
    being retired military.

    You can't see the bigger picture.

    Only the president's shrink knows the big picture. Everybody else
    has to guess.

    But like Milley, he chose to do nothing to stop the president
    from having his way in going to war against the American people.

    He literally shouted him down in a meeting. Trump wanted
    10,000 active duty troops to flood DC and Milley told him
    to fuck off.

    So what? The president knows he can do whatever he wants.
    Regardless of what Milley (or anybody else) told him.

    So, by your lights it is perfectly okay for Americans to kill
    other Americans, as they would only be "following orders" of a >LL>president gone mad. That line of defense did not work out so
    well for Germans who were prosecuted at Nuremburg. I wonder how
    well that defense will work out for those who followed the illegal >LL>orders of their commander-in-chief?

    Fuck off you sanctimonious douche.

    The truth hurts, doesn't it? Should I turn up the volume?
    Make sure you are able to hear it - with both ears?

    How dare you accuse me of supporting this asshole or his
    idiotic abuse of the military. Pull the tree out of your
    ass and act like an adult for a minute: what Trump is doing
    is far from ok. But blinding falling on our swords isn't
    going to do anyone any favors and will only make the
    situation orders of magnitude worse.

    Several military officers have violated their oath of enlistment
    by choosing to defend the president rather than the Constitution of
    the United States. I have not accused you of having done so, and I
    do pray you never do (if you come out of retirement).

    General Honor‚ (who also took the same oath as you) had the good
    sense not to obey the illegal orders given to him by Governor "Bobby" >LL>Jindal, who wanted National Guardsmen to use live ammo to kill young >LL>black boys who were looting department stores in New Orleans. Talk >LL>about a helluva price to pay for stealing shoes, wouldn't you say?

    Apples and oranges.

    Like I said, General Honor‚ is an honorable man. General Milley
    is not. What more need be said?

    Back to the crowd at St. John's church -
    You know as well as I do that nobody in that crowd deserved to be
    shot by rubber bullets, pepper spray, or tear gas. It was a peaceful >LL>protest, allowed under our US Constitution, and your fine president
    and fellow officers could have cared less. They did what they did >LL>because the US Constitution means nothing to them. And peoples lives >LL>mean even less.

    Hey asshole, point out where I ever said that anyone
    in that crowd deserved what happened to them? Go ahead,
    I'll wait.

    General Milley said it was okay, by being there with Trump.
    Defending Milley's actions is the same as saying the crowd deserved
    what they got.

    That's your misinterpretation because you're so goddamn drunk on your own
    faux moral superiority and love to hear yourself talk that you never stop
    to see if people are agreeing with you.

    I do not care if others agree with me or not. Truth is truth,
    even if it is damning to all.

    I bet you're just the life of the parties you go to.

    I can be. And I've been to plenty.

    On the other hand, you seem to think it's funny to joke
    about having COVID-19. Is that because you don't care
    about the 100,000 Americans who have died because your
    fine president couldn't be bothered to get off the golf
    course and deal with the pandemic like a real leader?

    Gallows humor. Some folks love it. Others hate it. Don't know why.

    Black Lives Matter. To all of us. Not just to blacks.

    You say that, but your jokes about COVID-19 betray a
    different viewpoint. You obviously don't care, because
    COVID-19 has disproportionately affected black and minority
    communities and you seem to think it's fine material for
    a joke. You and your president should go golfing together,
    you obviously have a lot in common. Members of the latinx
    community are also hard hit; do you still think your joke
    was appropriate? How about kids in cages in concentration
    camps? Do you approve of that, too? I mean, your president
    does. He also jokes about COVID-19, I'm sure.

    The first cases of COVID-19 in the USA were in February.
    Mark my words, nine months from February will come the first
    coronababies of the year ...

    We the people have a Constitutional right to exercise *all* freedoms >LL>noted. You might want to take some time and actually read what the US >LL>Constitution says, including all the amendments.

    So are you going to show up at one of those reopening protests
    without a mask and with a gun like the other right-wing nutjobs?
    You clearly don't care about BLM and you clearly don't take
    COVID-19 very seriously, so you'd probably fit right in.

    Do realize none of those peaceful protesters have COVID-19. It is
    only those from outside their communities who are infected. So why
    wear a mask? Really no need. Unless one wanted to masquerade as a
    member of the press.

    You can start with the Preamble and go from there. It should not
    take you long to finish, as the US Constitution is less than 5,000 >LL>words total (including amendments).

    Can I borrow your pocket constitution, or did you leave it
    at the bird refugee with the other right-wingers?

    Download a digital copy. Plenty of free copies available.
    Take as many as you want. Spread them around for others to read.
    That will make you a true patriot. Of course, you might have to
    explain it to them, and teach them what it all means ...

    It doesn't take much to understand that murder is murder.
    I condemn *all* acts of violence. So should you, and everyone
    else.

    Then why do you joke about COVID-19?

    We joke about everything else. So why not COVID-19?
    Can't leave anything out these days. Otherwise folks
    will call you a bigot. Or a racist. Or both.

    A huge orange grin smiling at ya.

    Seems like you support him based on what you do.

    Donald Trump has done the one thing no other president has
    ever been able to do. He brought us all together.

    That's right. Donald Trump is a uniter, not a divider.
    Remember. You heard it here first.

    --Lee

    --
    Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Lee Lofaso on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 06:20:23
    On 09 Jun 2020 at 08:03a, Lee Lofaso pondered and said...

    Milley was there, along with his dearly beloved president, supporting those National Guardsmen who followed the illegal orders given them.

    You don't know that he loves your dear president.

    I quoted the text of the oath of office for the president.

    Why? Because you're such a big Trump supporter
    you want everyone to know how you feel about him?

    I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those
    who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the
    Constitution of the United States.

    Military officers aren't enlisted. You're so ignorant
    you don't even know when you're wrong to accept correction.

    Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there
    to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.

    I'm not sure why you would ask that, since I never said
    it was?

    Who gave the orders for the National Guard to open fire on
    peaceful protesters? Washington DC is not a state. No governors
    there to give the orders. Who gave the orders? You should know,
    being retired military.

    Apparently, the DC police and your hero Trump.

    Oh, and I never said I was retired. I am discharged.
    You are so ignorant that you throw these terms around
    without even knowing the first thing about what they
    mean or how the military works. Typical right-wing
    Trumper.

    Hey asshole, point out where I ever said that anyone
    in that crowd deserved what happened to them? Go ahead,
    I'll wait.

    General Milley said it was okay, by being there with Trump.

    No no no. You said that _I_ was thought that what
    happened to those protesters was deserved. Don't
    deflect; tell me where _I_ said that. Be specific.

    Defending Milley's actions is the same as saying the crowd deserved
    what they got.

    Milley wasn't even there when the crowd was attacked.
    You're extrapolating without acknowledging any room
    for possibly being wrong. That's typical Trump
    supporter behavior.

    The first cases of COVID-19 in the USA were in February.

    Nope. They were far earlier.

    Mark my words, nine months from February will come the first
    coronababies of the year ...

    So you're OK with everything the Trump administration
    does, then? You're just peachy about the death of 100,000
    Americans? You're fine with the way that people of color,
    particularly African Americans, are disproportionately
    affected by this pandemic? Meanwhile, you fully support
    your president.

    So are you going to show up at one of those reopening protests
    without a mask and with a gun like the other right-wing nutjobs?
    You clearly don't care about BLM and you clearly don't take
    COVID-19 very seriously, so you'd probably fit right in.

    Do realize none of those peaceful protesters have COVID-19. It is
    only those from outside their communities who are infected. So why
    wear a mask? Really no need. Unless one wanted to masquerade as a
    member of the press.

    Right-wing groups have stated publicly that they've
    had members infiltrate protests while infected with
    COVID-19 to deliberately spread the virus. I guess
    you're ok with that, since your president told you
    there was nothing to worry about. Do you plan on going
    to a Trump rally without a mask now that they are being
    restarted?

    Download a digital copy. Plenty of free copies available.
    Take as many as you want. Spread them around for others to read.
    That will make you a true patriot. Of course, you might have to
    explain it to them, and teach them what it all means ...

    Maybe you and Ammon Bundy should get together and go
    bowling. Then you can hit up a Trump rally together.

    We joke about everything else. So why not COVID-19?
    Can't leave anything out these days. Otherwise folks
    will call you a bigot. Or a racist. Or both.

    Yeah, not, you can leave some things out in the name
    of decency. But if you're a Trump lover, you don't.
    Seems pretty clear to me that you're a fan of your
    Dear Leader.

    Donald Trump has done the one thing no other president has
    ever been able to do. He brought us all together.

    So you're saying you support Trump.

    That's right. Donald Trump is a uniter, not a divider.
    Remember. You heard it here first.

    At least we now know who you really support.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dan Cross on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 20:16:56
    Hello Dan,

    Milley was there, along with his dearly beloved president, supporting >LL>those National Guardsmen who followed the illegal orders given them.

    You don't know that he loves your dear president.

    He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.

    I quoted the text of the oath of office for the president.

    Why? Because you're such a big Trump supporter
    you want everyone to know how you feel about him?

    To remind you the oath of office requires the president to defend
    the Constitution of the United States.

    I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those
    who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the >LL>Constitution of the United States.

    Military officers aren't enlisted. You're so ignorant
    you don't even know when you're wrong to accept correction.

    I quoted three oaths, with cites. Read them at your pleasure.

    Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there
    to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.

    I'm not sure why you would ask that, since I never said
    it was?

    Milley chose to defend the president, rather than the Constution
    of the United States. IOW, he violated the very oath he took as an
    officer. Meaning he is not an honorable man, or a gentleman.

    Who gave the orders for the National Guard to open fire on
    peaceful protesters? Washington DC is not a state. No governors
    there to give the orders. Who gave the orders? You should know,
    being retired military.

    Apparently, the DC police and your hero Trump.

    Which brings us back to the original question I asked at
    the beginning of this thread -

    "Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"

    Given that you are retired military, and no longer active, it is
    a question you can easily dodge by claiming you are too old or some
    other chickenshit excuse. However, the military man who originally
    asked the question answered it himself by his own actions - by
    joining the president as troops opened fire on peaceful protesters
    who lawfully did their thing on holy ground.

    That's right. Your boy General Milley wrote those very words
    in a memo to his most loyal followers. And then hopped on the
    bunny trail to join his pal Donald Trump at St. John's church.
    What a swell guy!

    Oh, and I never said I was retired. I am discharged.

    So was Jack Nicholson, with a bit of help from Tom Cruise.
    Please. Tell us how you did it. Was your road trip every bit
    as fun as the one Jack took?

    You are so ignorant that you throw these terms around
    without even knowing the first thing about what they
    mean or how the military works. Typical right-wing
    Trumper.

    Hey. What do you expect? I'm a civvie. Just like Trump!
    Born to be wild ...

    Hey asshole, point out where I ever said that anyone
    in that crowd deserved what happened to them? Go ahead,
    I'll wait.
    General Milley said it was okay, by being there with Trump.

    No no no. You said that _I_ was thought that what
    happened to those protesters was deserved. Don't
    deflect; tell me where _I_ said that. Be specific.

    All of the protesters were peaceful, lawfully protesting
    what they viewed as a wrong. It was others who had infiltrated
    their ranks who were causing trouble, as they had no interest
    in actually protesting a thing.

    You see, trouble is where you find it. And those troublemakers
    knew exactly where to go in order to find the kind of trouble they
    could make.

    Most, if not all, of the troublemakers were right-wing radicals.
    No evidence at all that left-wing groups such as antifa had anything
    to do with it. No credible evidence the FBI or any other federal
    agency could find, anyway.

    What we have, in effect, is a president gone mad. A president who
    wants to make war on peaceful protesters, who have a Constitutional
    right to protest.

    He thought repression would win him a second term in office.
    The polls are proving him wrong, as his ratings continue to plunge
    downward into an abyss not even Harry Houdini could escape from.

    Defending Milley's actions is the same as saying the crowd deserved >LL>what they got.

    Milley wasn't even there when the crowd was attacked.

    We all know the president cannot stand the sight of blood.
    Or the sight of babies crying as tear gas is deployed. So it
    is quite natural that General Milley waited until the area
    was cleared of peaceful protesters for he and the president
    to arrive, with camera crew ready to give him the photo-op
    he had asked for.

    You're extrapolating without acknowledging any room for possibly being
    wrong. That's typical Trump supporter behavior.

    There are pictures on social media verifying this for anybody
    who bothers taking a look.

    The first cases of COVID-19 in the USA were in February.

    Nope. They were far earlier.

    I'm sure. But we did not know it had arrived here until February.

    Mark my words, nine months from February will come the first >LL>coronababies of the year ...

    So you're OK with everything the Trump administration
    does, then?

    Trump has no plan. Or rather, the Trump administration has no plan.
    Everything Trump & Co. has done, and is doing, is reactionary. It is
    reacting to events, and hoping for the best. Without any real plan
    of dealing with this public health crisis.

    You're just peachy about the death of 100,000 Americans?

    We cure ourselves by dying faster. That is the new plan.
    If one can call it that.

    You're fine with the way that people of color, particularly African
    Americans, are disproportionately affected by this pandemic?

    Why are more African Americans dying, and at a faster rate, than
    other groups? Because they are the ones who keep us fed, and keep
    us clothed, and keep us housed. Imagine what this world of ours
    what look like if those who have access to quality health care
    without having to put their own lives on the line going to work
    at meat packing plants, and convenience stores, and grocery stores,
    and other places where there are large gatherings of people.

    In the state of Louisiana, 32% of the population is black.
    And 37% of those who have died of COVID-19 were in nursing homes.
    Along with lots of folks in prisons who have died of COVID-19.
    Not sure how many who were residents of mental institutions, but
    I am sure the state has some records stored somewhere.

    Meanwhile, you fully support your president.

    Employeees of a state (such as Louisiana) take an oath.
    But never to a president.

    Members of a state legislature (such as Louisiana) take an oath.
    But never to a president.

    Members of Congress take an oath.
    But never to a president.

    Members of the US Military take an oath.
    But never to a president.

    The president himself takes an oath.
    But never to a president.

    What kind of oath did you take?

    So are you going to show up at one of those reopening protests
    without a mask and with a gun like the other right-wing nutjobs?
    You clearly don't care about BLM and you clearly don't take
    COVID-19 very seriously, so you'd probably fit right in.
    Do realize none of those peaceful protesters have COVID-19. It is >LL>only those from outside their communities who are infected. So why
    wear a mask? Really no need. Unless one wanted to masquerade as a >LL>member of the press.

    Right-wing groups have stated publicly that they've
    had members infiltrate protests while infected with
    COVID-19 to deliberately spread the virus. I guess
    you're ok with that, since your president told you
    there was nothing to worry about. Do you plan on going
    to a Trump rally without a mask now that they are being
    restarted?

    The president does not wear a mask while in public.
    I have no idea if he wears a mask in private.
    Not that it matters, as he claims it is all a hoax.

    Download a digital copy. Plenty of free copies available.
    Take as many as you want. Spread them around for others to read.
    That will make you a true patriot. Of course, you might have to
    explain it to them, and teach them what it all means ...

    Maybe you and Ammon Bundy should get together and go
    bowling. Then you can hit up a Trump rally together.

    Why do you hate the Constitution of the United States?
    It is a beautiful document, written on parchment, although
    the ink is brown and kinda fading ...

    We joke about everything else. So why not COVID-19?
    Can't leave anything out these days. Otherwise folks
    will call you a bigot. Or a racist. Or both.

    Yeah, not, you can leave some things out in the name
    of decency. But if you're a Trump lover, you don't.
    Seems pretty clear to me that you're a fan of your
    Dear Leader.

    I made the mistake of putting lemon in my hair in an attempt
    to lighten it for Mardi Gras one year. Rather than rinse it out
    after a few minutes, I left it in overnight. Woke up with orange
    hair, and I never forgave myself. Had no choice but to let it
    all grow out, which took time. It was either that, or the razor.

    Donald Trump has done the one thing no other president has
    ever been able to do. He brought us all together.

    So you're saying you support Trump.

    In a weird way. Hoping he remains in office long enough to lose.
    Otherwise we could wind up with Pence.

    That's right. Donald Trump is a uniter, not a divider.
    Remember. You heard it here first.

    At least we now know who you really support.

    I support the will of the people. Whatever that happens to be.

    --Lee

    --
    Melts in your mouth, not in your hands

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Lee Lofaso on Thursday, June 11, 2020 06:31:11
    On 10 Jun 2020 at 08:16p, Lee Lofaso pondered and said...

    You don't know that he loves your dear president.

    He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.

    As are you! Just admit that you're a Trump supporter.

    Why? Because you're such a big Trump supporter
    you want everyone to know how you feel about him?

    To remind you the oath of office requires the president to defend
    the Constitution of the United States.

    So you don't refute that you're a Trump supporter.
    Got it.

    I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those
    who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the >LL>Constitution of the United States.

    Military officers aren't enlisted. You're so ignorant
    you don't even know when you're wrong to accept correction.

    You stated that officers are enlisted and swear the
    oath of enlistment. They aren't and don't. I thought
    that you Trumpers were really big on humping the
    military's leg? As a Good Little Right-Winger, shouldn't
    you know that?

    Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there
    to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.

    I'm not sure why you would ask that, since I never said
    it was?

    Milley chose to defend the president, rather than the Constution
    of the United States. IOW, he violated the very oath he took as an officer. Meaning he is not an honorable man, or a gentleman.

    No no no. You made a specific statement, that _I_
    believe that the military is here to defend the president.
    Don't try to deflect.

    Apparently, the DC police and your hero Trump.

    Which brings us back to the original question I asked at
    the beginning of this thread -

    "Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"

    And I answered that unequivocally: No. I am not, nor
    was I ever, under any obligation to follow any illegal
    order, no matter who issued it; I would not do so. You
    evidently know me better than I do, though, and disagree
    with me on what I would do and what I have seen other
    military officers do.

    But you've also admitted to being a Trump supporter, so
    this is unsurprising. Do you support his little concentration
    camps for kids, or cracking down on protesters?

    Given that you are retired military, and no longer active, it is

    I am not retired, as I told you. That's a very specific
    status; I served and left the service prior to retirement.
    I am honorably discharged.

    a question you can easily dodge by claiming you are too old or some
    other chickenshit excuse.

    I don't see how I need to "dodge" the question since I
    answered it clearly and unequivocally. Perhaps you didn't
    understand the answer, or it didn't fit with your
    preconceptions, and so you are having a hard time either
    understanding or accepting it?

    However, the military man who originally
    asked the question answered it himself by his own actions - by
    joining the president as troops opened fire on peaceful protesters
    who lawfully did their thing on holy ground.

    Except he actually wasn't there for the clearing of Lafayette
    park. Knowing that you support Trump, I understand that you
    have a hard time with facts and nuance.

    Oh, and I never said I was retired. I am discharged.

    So was Jack Nicholson, with a bit of help from Tom Cruise.
    Please. Tell us how you did it. Was your road trip every bit
    as fun as the one Jack took?

    Uh...you join, you serve, and you get out. If you never do
    anything illegal or immoral while in, you likely get an
    honorable discharge; possibly a medical, which is technically
    a general discharge, though under honorable circumstances.

    It's really not that hard, though it probably doesn't mesh
    with your biases, which may be why you have such a hard time
    understanding it. That may also have something to do with
    your love for your president and Dear Leader, Donald Trump.

    Hey. What do you expect? I'm a civvie. Just like Trump!
    Born to be wild ...

    You even revel in being like him! Amazing.

    No no no. You said that _I_ was thought that what
    happened to those protesters was deserved. Don't
    deflect; tell me where _I_ said that. Be specific.

    All of the protesters were peaceful, lawfully protesting
    what they viewed as a wrong. It was others who had infiltrated
    their ranks who were causing trouble, as they had no interest
    in actually protesting a thing.

    No no no. You're trying to change the subject again.
    You said that _I_ said those protesters deserved what
    happened to them. Tell me exactly where I said that.
    Exactly. Go ahead; I'll wait.

    You see, trouble is where you find it. And those troublemakers
    knew exactly where to go in order to find the kind of trouble they
    could make.

    Most, if not all, of the troublemakers were right-wing radicals.

    Your kinda people, huh? You want to see people in cages.
    You want to see the police beat people on the street. You
    want to see a Trump dictatorship.

    What we have, in effect, is a president gone mad. A president who
    wants to make war on peaceful protesters, who have a Constitutional
    right to protest.

    So why are you such a booster of his?

    There are pictures on social media verifying this for anybody
    who bothers taking a look.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/06/08/timeline-trump-church- photo-op/

    You're just peachy about the death of 100,000 Americans?

    We cure ourselves by dying faster. That is the new plan.
    If one can call it that.

    I can see you're perfectly fine with Trump's handling of
    the pandemic.

    Why are more African Americans dying, and at a faster rate, than
    other groups? Because they are the ones who keep us fed, and keep
    us clothed, and keep us housed.

    So you're fine with keeping black people oppressed as long
    as you are kept in clothing, housing and fed? That's basically
    what you're saying.

    Meanwhile, you fully support your president.

    What kind of oath did you take?

    We're not talking about me; we're talking about you
    and your support for Trump.

    Maybe you and Ammon Bundy should get together and go
    bowling. Then you can hit up a Trump rally together.

    Why do you hate the Constitution of the United States?
    It is a beautiful document, written on parchment, although
    the ink is brown and kinda fading ...

    It's not me that hates it; it's you. You and your
    fellow Trump supporters, who align yourselves with
    those who pervert it and its meaning to retain your
    hold on power. It's really sad.

    I support the will of the people. Whatever that happens to be.

    So you're ok with the right-wing putting kids in
    concentration camps. With Trump destroying the planet
    and the presidency. With murder of black and brown
    bodies in the name of "law and order". With over a
    hundred thousand of your fellow Americans dying.

    Wow.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dan Cross on Friday, June 12, 2020 03:36:07
    Hello Dan,

    You don't know that he loves your dear president.
    He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.

    As are you! Just admit that you're a Trump supporter.

    Just because I have a red cap on my head that says Make America
    Great Again doesn't mean what you think it means ...

    Why? Because you're such a big Trump supporter
    you want everyone to know how you feel about him?
    To remind you the oath of office requires the president to defend >LL>the Constitution of the United States.

    So you don't refute that you're a Trump supporter.
    Got it.

    Just because I have a huge banner on my wall declaring

    * == TRUMP ==
    * = 2020 =
    * == NO MORE BULLSHIT ==

    doesn't mean what you think it means ...

    I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those
    who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the
    Constitution of the United States.
    Military officers aren't enlisted. You're so ignorant
    you don't even know when you're wrong to accept correction.

    You stated that officers are enlisted and swear the
    oath of enlistment. They aren't and don't. I thought
    that you Trumpers were really big on humping the
    military's leg? As a Good Little Right-Winger, shouldn't
    you know that?

    I stated both enlisted and commissioned swear (or affirm)
    an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States.

    The president takes a different oath, but is likewise sworn
    to protect the Constitution of the United States.

    Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there
    to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.

    I'm not sure why you would ask that, since I never said
    it was?
    Milley chose to defend the president, rather than the Constution
    of the United States. IOW, he violated the very oath he took as an >LL>officer. Meaning he is not an honorable man, or a gentleman.

    No no no.

    Yes yes yes. Today he finally admitted he was wrong. Quite unlike
    Defense Secretary Mark Esper, who never had any balls to begin with.

    "I should not have been there." ~ Army Gen. Mark Milley, the Joint
    Chiefs Chairman, 6/11/2020

    Imagine that. The top soldier in the nation saying he was wrong
    to accompany his beloved president on a walk through Lafayette
    Square that ended in a photo op at a church none of them were
    invited to, after having peaceful and nonviolent protesters
    shot by rubber bullets, pepper spray, and dispersed by tear gas.
    A photo op of his president holding a bible upside down for
    all the world to see.

    You made a specific statement, that _I_ believe that the military is here to
    defend the president. Don't try to deflect.

    Gen. Milley and Secretary of Defense Esper made that claim.
    Not me. But at least Gen. Milley publicly admitted he was wrong.

    "My presence in that moment andin that environment created a
    perception of the military involved in domestic polics. As a
    commissioned officer, it was a mistake that I have learned
    from, and sincerely hope we all can learn from it."
    ~ Gen. Mark Milley, 6/11/2020

    There you go. ..."created a perception of the military involved
    in domestic politics." Not the president's fault he was an idiot.
    After all, Gen. Milley is a big boy, and knew full well what he
    did was not acceptable behavior of an officer and a gentleman.

    If Gen. Milley wanted to prove his sincerity, he would have
    resigned his commission and joined the ranks of the unemployed.

    But we all know such men never have any honor.

    Apparently, the DC police and your hero Trump.
    Which brings us back to the original question I asked at
    the beginning of this thread -
    "Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"

    And I answered that unequivocally: No. I am not, nor
    was I ever, under any obligation to follow any illegal
    order, no matter who issued it; I would not do so. You
    evidently know me better than I do, though, and disagree
    with me on what I would do and what I have seen other
    military officers do.

    Notice the president and his entourage waited until the protesters
    had been cleared for them to make their appearance at the church.

    Fact of the matter is you have no idea what you would do
    in certain situations.

    If during a time of war your commanding officer gives you a
    sidearm and tells you to take a prisoner to headquarters and
    return in fifteen minutes, you would do it - even though it
    would take you a full hour driving through heavy fighting in
    enemy territory. You would do it just to save your own sorry
    skin, knowing what your commanding officer would do to you
    if you failed to follow that order.

    IOW, your commanding office just told you to take the prisoner
    outside and execute him, then return to him for further orders.

    Soldiers exist to follow orders. That's it. They are not there
    to think. Only to do what they are told. Nothing more, nothing
    less. The commander in chief is head honcho, and all his toy
    soldiers and sailors and airmen are compelled to comply. Even
    his spacemen, although not really sure what branch the space
    force is supposed to be part of. In Robert Heinlein's world the
    spacemen were Marines. But this is Trumpland ...

    But you've also admitted to being a Trump supporter, so
    this is unsurprising.

    I said I wear a red hat and have a huge banner on my wall.
    How does that make me a Trump supporter?

    Do you support his little concentration camps for kids, or cracking down on
    protesters?

    Trump (and Milley) waited until the protesters went home before
    making his appearance at the church ...

    Given that you are retired military, and no longer active, it is

    I am not retired, as I told you. That's a very specific
    status; I served and left the service prior to retirement.
    I am honorably discharged.

    So is US Senator Tammy Duckworth. But at least you still have legs
    to stand on. Unlike so many others, some who have lost far more.

    a question you can easily dodge by claiming you are too old or some >LL>other chickenshit excuse.

    I don't see how I need to "dodge" the question since I
    answered it clearly and unequivocally. Perhaps you didn't
    understand the answer, or it didn't fit with your
    preconceptions, and so you are having a hard time either
    understanding or accepting it?

    Gen. Milley has spent 40 years in uniform. He knew what he was
    asked to do was wrong, but he chose to do it anyway. At least he
    had the decency to publicly admit he was wrong. Quite unlike the
    Secretary of Defense, who has chosen not to say a thing. And
    you and me and the entire world knows that Donald Trump will never
    admit he was wrong. About anything.

    So. There you go. Donald Trump is right. Donald Trump is always right.
    Really not hard to say. We even had a candidate who ran for governor
    last year, a novice politician in his 70s who had never run for office
    before, his entire campaign being "Donald Trump is right." He made
    the runoff, and came within 40,000 votes of winning against the
    incumbent governor.

    However, the military man who originally
    asked the question answered it himself by his own actions - by
    joining the president as troops opened fire on peaceful protesters
    who lawfully did their thing on holy ground.

    Except he actually wasn't there for the clearing of Lafayette
    park.

    The event was on June 1. The president and his entourage waited
    until the crowd had been forcibly dispersed. This was in daylight
    hours, not at night. Then they made their appearance so he could
    have a photo op of himself holding a bible upside down for all
    the world to see.

    Note that Gen. Milley waited until today before publicly admitting
    he was wrong. Note that Secretary of Defense Esper has never said
    anything publicly that he had erred by being with Donald Trump at
    that moment.

    Knowing that you support Trump, I understand that you have a hard time with
    facts and nuance.

    Facts? There are no facts! Alternative facts, yes! But facts?
    You really should know better than to ask any Trumpster that question.

    Oh, and I never said I was retired. I am discharged.
    So was Jack Nicholson, with a bit of help from Tom Cruise.
    Please. Tell us how you did it. Was your road trip every bit
    as fun as the one Jack took?

    Uh...you join, you serve, and you get out.

    If you don't get yourself killed first.

    If you never do anything illegal or immoral while in, you likely get an
    honorable discharge;

    What if you're nuts? Or go nuts after you got in? Happens a lot
    to soldiers. And Marines. Especially during times of war. But also
    during training, as some never quite make it to the big leagues.

    possibly a medical, which is technically a general discharge, though under
    honorable circumstances.

    Is there a difference? Should there be a difference? I was playing
    a Vietnam veteran during a rated chess tournament, and was well on
    my way to having the guy in checkmate, when all of a sudden he got
    up and hit me, knocking me off my chair along with all the pieces
    on the board. I mean, that guy clocked me. And then he apologized.
    Not really his fault, as many veterans have problems after they
    return home from wherever they were stationed.

    It's really not that hard, though it probably doesn't mesh
    with your biases, which may be why you have such a hard time
    understanding it. That may also have something to do with
    your love for your president and Dear Leader, Donald Trump.

    Nobody can understand Trump like a Trumpster! He knows us
    better than we know ourselves! That is the beauty of what the
    rest of the world can only imagine ...

    Hey. What do you expect? I'm a civvie. Just like Trump!
    Born to be wild ...

    You even revel in being like him! Amazing.

    All you need to do is find a lemon, slice it in half, and
    squeeze all the lemon juice into your hair, letting it sit
    overnight. In the morning, you will wake up with hair the
    same shade of orange as Trump!

    No no no. You said that _I_ was thought that what
    happened to those protesters was deserved. Don't
    deflect; tell me where _I_ said that. Be specific.
    All of the protesters were peaceful, lawfully protesting
    what they viewed as a wrong. It was others who had infiltrated
    their ranks who were causing trouble, as they had no interest
    in actually protesting a thing.

    No no no. You're trying to change the subject again.
    You said that _I_ said those protesters deserved what
    happened to them. Tell me exactly where I said that.
    Exactly. Go ahead; I'll wait.

    My words and actions do not mean a thing. It is the military
    who have to worry about that, as Gen. Milley explained -

    "And I am not immune. That sparked a national debate about
    the role of the military in civil society. We must hold dear
    the principle of an apolitical military that is so deeply
    rooted in the very essenceof our republic. It takes time and
    work andeffort, but it may be the most important thing each
    and every one of us does every single day."
    ~ Gen. Mark Milley, 6/11/2020

    Note the military did not agree with President Bill Clinton's
    desire to send in US troops to Serbia, in order to stop ethnic
    cleansing. There were hearings in the Congress, the military
    leaders using those televised hearings it would take an invasion
    force of at least half a million US soldiers in order to do what
    President Clinton had wanted. So the majority Republican Congress
    turned a thumbs down to the President, telling him no US troops
    for you to send. None whatsoever.

    President Clinton then ordered Gen. Wesley Clark to take charge,
    conducting a war on Serbia by air power alone. And it worked.
    Not a single US casualty, the only war ever won by air power alone.
    The Serbs left Kosovo, meaning more ethnic cleansing. And Kosovans
    made a statue of Bill Clinton, which they placed right in the
    center of the town square.

    A few years later, George W. Bush wanted to send hundreds of
    thousands of US troops to Iraq. Hearings were held in the Congress,
    and the military was all gung-ho and ready for action. Didn't
    matter how many US troops were needed, their boy could have as
    many as he wanted.

    When Clinton lied, nobody died.
    When Bush lied, thousands died.

    Donald Trump claims he wants to bring all our troops home.
    He can start with Iraq.

    You see, trouble is where you find it. And those troublemakers
    knew exactly where to go in order to find the kind of trouble they >LL>could make.
    Most, if not all, of the troublemakers were right-wing radicals.

    Your kinda people, huh?

    Yeah. I grew up in the South. Knew a preacher who marched in Selma.
    He was lynched at a young age, losing his balls but surviving. His
    wife at the time did not, along with two of his kids, as the same
    folks who carved him up set his house on fire. One of his surviving
    sons later was arrested and charged with first degree murder. But
    later released due to lack of evidence. That is what happens to
    black folks in a white man's world.

    You want to see people in cages.

    Better to release them so contact tracers can hunt them down.

    You want to see the police beat people on the street.

    Only live on television, cold drink in hand.

    You want to see a Trump dictatorship.

    Trump is always right.

    What we have, in effect, is a president gone mad. A president who
    wants to make war on peaceful protesters, who have a Constitutional >LL>right to protest.

    So why are you such a booster of his?

    United we stand, divided we fall. The quickest and surest way
    to unite us is to have a uniter in charge. And you have to admit,
    nobody has united us more than The Great Uniter himself, Donald
    Trump.

    There are pictures on social media verifying this for anybody
    who bothers taking a look.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/06/08/timeline-trump-church-
    photo-op/


    There are lots of pictures floating about. Both digital and print.

    You're just peachy about the death of 100,000 Americans?
    We cure ourselves by dying faster. That is the new plan.
    If one can call it that.

    I can see you're perfectly fine with Trump's handling of
    the pandemic.

    The man with no plan. Makes perfect sense to me.

    Why are more African Americans dying, and at a faster rate, than
    other groups? Because they are the ones who keep us fed, and keep
    us clothed, and keep us housed.

    So you're fine with keeping black people oppressed as long
    as you are kept in clothing, housing and fed? That's basically
    what you're saying.

    Melinda Gates spilled the beans as to what it is all about.
    The vaccine will first be given to doctors and nurses. Then
    it will be given to African Americans. Once the doctors and
    nurses are out of the way, there will not be anybody left
    to treat the African Americans who get the vaccine. Then the
    contact tracers will hunt them down and place them in camps.
    Whether it is FEMA camps or military camps or camps by any
    other name, it will be camps for those who are sick with
    no medical care available.

    Once the sick people are out of the way, white folks will
    have nothing to worry about, as the US will be disease-free.

    Now that is what I call a plan!

    Meanwhile, you fully support your president.
    What kind of oath did you take?

    We're not talking about me; we're talking about you
    and your support for Trump.

    The only oath Trumpsters have taken is "Trump is always right!"
    Of course, wearing a red cap is all that is needed. Not really
    necessary for anybody to say a thing.

    Maybe you and Ammon Bundy should get together and go
    bowling. Then you can hit up a Trump rally together.
    Why do you hate the Constitution of the United States?
    It is a beautiful document, written on parchment, although
    the ink is brown and kinda fading ...

    It's not me that hates it; it's you. You and your
    fellow Trump supporters, who align yourselves with
    those who pervert it and its meaning to retain your
    hold on power. It's really sad.

    Have you read the president's oath of office? It is noted,
    word for word, in Article II, Section 1. There is no mention
    of public safety. None whatsoever. Please read it and tell
    me I am wrong.

    I support the will of the people. Whatever that happens to be.

    So you're ok with the right-wing putting kids in
    concentration camps. With Trump destroying the planet
    and the presidency. With murder of black and brown
    bodies in the name of "law and order". With over a
    hundred thousand of your fellow Americans dying.

    We [the people] get what we deserve.

    "What we are seeing is the long shadow of our original sin
    in Jamestown 401 years ago." ~Gen. Mark Milley, 6/11/2020

    Wow.

    Yeah. The first three words of the US Constitution.
    We the People.

    --Lee

    --
    It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Lee Lofaso on Saturday, June 13, 2020 00:41:47
    On 12 Jun 2020 at 03:36a, Lee Lofaso pondered and said...

    And I answered that unequivocally: No. I am not, nor
    was I ever, under any obligation to follow any illegal
    order, no matter who issued it; I would not do so. You
    evidently know me better than I do, though, and disagree
    with me on what I would do and what I have seen other
    military officers do.

    Notice the president and his entourage waited until the protesters
    had been cleared for them to make their appearance at the church.

    Fact of the matter is you have no idea what you would do
    in certain situations.

    Actually, haven been in situations like that, I do.

    If during a time of war your commanding officer gives you a
    sidearm and tells you to take a prisoner to headquarters and
    return in fifteen minutes, you would do it - even though it
    would take you a full hour driving through heavy fighting in
    enemy territory. You would do it just to save your own sorry
    skin, knowing what your commanding officer would do to you
    if you failed to follow that order.

    Are you describing yourself? Because you sure as shit
    aren't describing _me_. I've been in situations like
    that and know full-well what I'd do.

    Soldiers exist to follow orders. That's it. They are not there
    to think. Only to do what they are told. Nothing more, nothing
    less. The commander in chief is head honcho, and all his toy
    soldiers and sailors and airmen are compelled to comply. Even
    his spacemen, although not really sure what branch the space
    force is supposed to be part of. In Robert Heinlein's world the
    spacemen were Marines. But this is Trumpland ...

    That's one of the most laughable things I've ever read.
    That's empirically not true. Maybe for bootlickers like
    you who want to follow Trump off an authoritarian cliff.

    But you've also admitted to being a Trump supporter, so
    this is unsurprising.

    I said I wear a red hat and have a huge banner on my wall.
    How does that make me a Trump supporter?

    Your statements and actions do, symbols aside.

    I am not retired, as I told you. That's a very specific
    status; I served and left the service prior to retirement.
    I am honorably discharged.

    So is US Senator Tammy Duckworth. But at least you still have legs
    to stand on. Unlike so many others, some who have lost far more.

    What does that have to do with anything?

    But since you brought here up.... Why don't you go tell
    Sen Duckworth that she was there to only follow orders,
    not to think, and that she'd commit war crimes if told
    to do so by Donald Trump? She may have lost her legs to
    the RPG round that hit her Blackhawk, but I'll bet she'd
    tear you apart so fast you'd have no idea what hit you.

    --Lee

    The rest of your post was an incoherent wall of text.
    Very well.

    *PLoNk!*

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Dan Cross on Saturday, June 13, 2020 02:16:07
    Hello Dan,

    And I answered that unequivocally: No. I am not, nor
    was I ever, under any obligation to follow any illegal
    order, no matter who issued it; I would not do so. You
    evidently know me better than I do, though, and disagree
    with me on what I would do and what I have seen other
    military officers do.

    Notice the president and his entourage waited until the protesters
    had been cleared for them to make their appearance at the church.
    Fact of the matter is you have no idea what you would do
    in certain situations.

    Actually, haven been in situations like that, I do.

    Prove it.

    The men in uniform who opened fire on their fellow Americans
    at Lafayette Square were ashamed of what they did, after the fact.
    Most of them wish they had not followed the illegal orders given
    them. But they did what they did, not a single one of them even
    bothering to question the reasons why.

    If during a time of war your commanding officer gives you a
    sidearm and tells you to take a prisoner to headquarters and
    return in fifteen minutes, you would do it - even though it
    would take you a full hour driving through heavy fighting in
    enemy territory. You would do it just to save your own sorry
    skin, knowing what your commanding officer would do to you
    if you failed to follow that order.

    Are you describing yourself?

    You're the one pretending to be soldier boy. You made the claim
    that you have been in situations when you were given an illegal
    order(s) to follow by your superior/commanding officer. You made
    the claim to have refused those orders, given your statement.
    Some would call that insubordination. Others would call it conduct
    unbecoming an officer. But hey. Like I said, I'm a civvy. So I
    don't have to follow anybody's orders. Not even my own.

    Because you sure as shit aren't describing _me_.

    Not now, since you are just a civvie. Just like me. But back in
    the day, when you were playing soldier, sure describes you to a T.

    I've been in situations like that and know full-well what I'd do.

    You don't know jack shit what the hell you would do in such a
    situation. And none of the soldiers who followed the illegal orders
    knew jack shit would they would do. Until they were actually given
    those illegal orders. Not a single soldier objected or ran away.
    Every single soldier did as he/she was told. Which is exactly
    what you would have done had you been in their ranks.

    Soldiers exist to follow orders. That's it. They are not there
    to think. Only to do what they are told. Nothing more, nothing
    less. The commander in chief is head honcho, and all his toy
    soldiers and sailors and airmen are compelled to comply. Even
    his spacemen, although not really sure what branch the space
    force is supposed to be part of. In Robert Heinlein's world the >LL>spacemen were Marines. But this is Trumpland ...

    That's one of the most laughable things I've ever read.
    That's empirically not true. Maybe for bootlickers like
    you who want to follow Trump off an authoritarian cliff.

    Heinlein's space marines were fighting bugs on another world.
    The world Trump is trying to build here is the same kind of world
    that Heinlein described in many of his novels. Only difference
    being Heinlein was writing fiction.

    But you've also admitted to being a Trump supporter, so
    this is unsurprising.

    I said I wear a red hat and have a huge banner on my wall.
    How does that make me a Trump supporter?

    Your statements and actions do, symbols aside.

    What I wear and what I have on my wall are statements and actions
    in and of themselves.

    I am not retired, as I told you. That's a very specific
    status; I served and left the service prior to retirement.
    I am honorably discharged.

    So is US Senator Tammy Duckworth. But at least you still have legs
    to stand on. Unlike so many others, some who have lost far more.

    What does that have to do with anything?

    Legs. Gotta have legs to stand on, else you got nothin'.
    After she lost her first set, she found another. And learned
    how to use them. Perhaps you should do the same. Or at least
    try.

    But since you brought here up.... Why don't you go tell
    Sen Duckworth that she was there to only follow orders,
    not to think, and that she'd commit war crimes if told
    to do so by Donald Trump? She may have lost her legs to
    the RPG round that hit her Blackhawk, but I'll bet she'd
    tear you apart so fast you'd have no idea what hit you.

    We have a civilian form of government.

    "We must hold dear the principle of an apolitical military that
    is so deeply rooted in the very essence of our republic. It takes
    time and effort, but it may be the most important thing each and
    every one of us does every single day." ~Gen. Mark Milley, 6/11/20

    --Lee

    The rest of your post was an incoherent wall of text.
    Very well.

    *PLoNk!*

    Enjoy your day.

    --Lee

    --
    As Good As It Looks

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Lee Lofaso on Sunday, June 14, 2020 09:47:34
    On 13 Jun 2020 at 02:16a, Lee Lofaso pondered and said...

    Actually, haven been in situations like that, I do.

    Prove it.

    Prove that you're not molesting children anymore first.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Lee Lofaso on Monday, June 22, 2020 08:21:12

    On 12 Jun 2020, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    Hello Dan,

    You don't know that he loves your dear president.
    He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.

    As are you! Just admit that you're a Trump supporter.

    Just because I have a red cap on my head that says Make America
    Great Again doesn't mean what you think it means ...

    It should be obvious as to what Make America Great Again this means, but if
    you believe differently then there is the problem.

    If you would like examples as to why America is greater under Trump than
    Obama. Let me know.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ HUB ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³NY-=-HQ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00Ä00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A44 2020/02/04 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Gregory Deyss on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 02:02:17
    Hello Greg,

    You don't know that he loves your dear president.
    He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.

    As are you! Just admit that you're a Trump supporter.
    Just because I have a red cap on my head that says Make America
    Great Again doesn't mean what you think it means ...

    It should be obvious as to what Make America Great Again this means, but if >you believe differently then there is the problem.

    If you would like examples as to why America is greater under Trump than >Obama. Let me know.

    On or abouts August 1 Joe Biden will announce his choice for
    vice president being <drum roll> Michelle Obama. Then you and
    others will know what will truly Make America Great Again.

    --Lee

    --
    Because not everyone likes licorice

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)